Eizenkot: "I’m Working to Become Prime Minister. Netanyahu Knows I’m His Main Rival"

"120 and One": Eizenkot says, "I’m working to become prime minister. Netanyahu understands that I’m his rival, not Bennett"

Follow the podcast "120 and One," ynet’s political podcast hosted by Moran Azulai, which every week brings decision-makers, lawmakers and the people shaping reality in the State of Israel for a conversation. You are invited to follow us on Be.po, Israel’s podcast home, as well as on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and anywhere else you usually listen.

Since striking out on his own and founding the "Yashar" party, Gadi Eizenkot has known both ups and downs. These days, when flattering polls prompt his rivals from both his own camp and the opposing bloc to take aim at him, he has reason for some optimism, at least electorally. Less than half a year before the election, and as he emerges as the leading force against Netanyahu’s coalition, Eizenkot came to the "120 and One" interview and spoke about what he sees as the strategic and security failure into which the State of Israel has been led, and about the vicious attack directed at him from Balfour. Watch the full interview: "120 and One": Moran Azulai with Gadi Eizenkot.

Eizenkot views this week’s events, the one-day war with Iran, in a bleak light. "The connection that exists today between Iran and Hezbollah, Beirut’s fate is Tehran’s fate, is something severe that has never existed before," he says. "It’s something I never imagined. We did not know how to turn military achievements into results, and we woke up to a security reality that must not be allowed. The fact that Israel needs approval from Washington to carry out a strike in Lebanon is beyond comprehension."

That is the price we pay for the extraordinary help we received. There are no free lunches. "That is the main problem here. The prime minister maneuvered us into a place where the one who decides everything is the president of the United States. He is the one who imposed a problematic agreement in Gaza, he is the one enforcing the rules on the use of force in Lebanon, and he is the one enforcing constraints on the use of force in Iran and turning planes around en route."

What do you suggest, ignore him?

"No. But I would suggest explaining our interests better and standing up for them. Netanyahu has broken here the security principles of eight decades."

If you were prime minister on the day missiles were launched from Iran, what happens?

"I would do what I proposed to Netanyahu in April 2024, during the first Iranian strike. I proposed a parallel strike, while the missiles were in the air on the way here. He blocked it and in the end took someone else’s opinion. That is the strike the public security minister defined as a ‘drizzle.’ That was the only time I could justify him in recent years."

Eizenkot’s claim that Netanyahu has failed strategically is not based only on the confrontation with Iran and Hezbollah, but presumably on the years leading up to the war. "Netanyahu understands היטב the damage he caused the country in the way he led it to October 7," he says. "He can say he wasn’t woken up, that he wasn’t updated, that he wasn’t told. But before he goes to sleep, he knows he is responsible for the failure."

"What happened to him? I think the legal, personal and political issues became the central component in his decision-making. You can see it in every move he makes. Take the coming day. Instead of strengthening the IDF at its most difficult hour, he is working to weaken it because of political constraints tied to the Basic Law: Torah Study. He is selling the state’s principles to gain four weeks. He formed an alliance with corrupt people who look only at their partisan and sectoral interests."

Who are these corrupt people, Moshe Gafni and Aryeh Deri?

"Some of his partners, yes, you mentioned their names. And he is also surrounded by a corrupt criminal environment, some of it accused of severely harming state security, on the verge of treason. He takes these people and puts them closest to him. Added to that is the collapse of Israel’s strategic layer: there is a weak cabinet of submissive people, he destroyed the National Security Council, there is no political-security division in the Defense Ministry, and the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee is run by a nice man who knows how to give the floor and send people out. There is no one today challenging Netanyahu, and therefore he is leading the State of Israel in the wrong direction."

Do you regret leaving the government in June 2024?

"No, because if I had stayed it would have been a fig leaf, and I would have betrayed everything I have done throughout my life. I saw Netanyahu being heavily influenced by his circle, pressured by Smotrich and Ben Gvir, and not making the right decisions. We wanted to influence him to go for a hostage deal. He brought it to a vote but worked against it. We also tried to persuade him to move to the north because for a decade, with the Mossad, a much larger plan than the pagers was being prepared, but he did not want to implement it."

Can you elaborate on the plan?

"In 2015, on the Mossad’s initiative, we began a joint program with the IDF to infiltrate capabilities so that, on command, a devastating blow could be dealt. That blow never happened because, as usual, Netanyahu is reactive to events. A plan prepared at a cost of billions of shekels went to waste. It would have achieved results ten times better than the pagers. That is why he is afraid of a state commission of inquiry. Not only because of October 7. Huge plans prepared for Iran, Lebanon and Gaza were wasted."

Your son is maneuvering?

Eizenkot does not reveal which plan was being discussed in Lebanon, but hints that it was similar to the plan to strike the metro in Gaza, which was carried out in Operation Guardian of the Walls in 2021 and achieved limited results. "The idea was to identify all of Hamas’s defensive tunnel network and strike it simultaneously after we had brought them underground," he says. "This excellent plan, which I conceived, was wasted in Guardian of the Walls to answer public opinion. That too is something that needs to be investigated. How do you make such a stupid decision?"

Do you understand the objective in capturing Beaufort?

"Yes, because Beaufort is a high ridge that dominates the northern communities. But if the goal is to remove the threat, demilitarize southern Lebanon and dismantle Hezbollah, then we are a huge distance from that. Because, as in Gaza, Netanyahu did nothing about the day after. I sat with him in cabinet meetings. He refused to talk about the overall strategic picture. He is a man of the immediate mission."

Do you see him posing on Beaufort like Begin and Sharon?

"No, they’re a bunch of cowards. They arrive at some secured location, take pictures and run away."

People constantly talk about prioritizing arenas and the fact that you cannot control everything at once. If you were in his place, what should be done and where should one begin?

"The first thing that should be advanced is a greatly improved interim agreement in Syria. As for the Gaza Strip, Netanyahu transferred the security authority to the Americans and it is completely stuck. Hamas must be destroyed militarily and politically, by force or through an arrangement. One of the two must happen. But this is again the classic Netanyahu, who does not want the Palestinian Authority. He does not want to replace Hamas. That was also the case in my time. He was the biggest supporter of Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip. I do not see that he has changed his mind."

By the way, in the past you responded to one of his attacks on you and hinted at his condition in the first days after October 7.

"I met him for the first time on October 11, when he invited me and Gantz to a discussion. I admit that when I sat down a meter from him, I recoiled and was frightened. For the first time I understood what it means for leadership to come out of balance."

How did he seem to you?

"To Yoav Gallant’s credit, and he is not known as a great friend of mine, he was the only one who sat steadily and spoke confidently about a plan. All the others seemed to me to be underperforming, including Netanyahu. Gloomy, incoherent, letting the discussion drift. But after the discussion Netanyahu made the right decision. The discussion began at 5:00 p.m., and everyone in the room proposed that he attack Hezbollah at 7:00 p.m. When he asked me, I said it was a grave strategic mistake. The next day, at the swearing-in, he whispered in my ear, ‘You saved us yesterday.’ Today they say about me, ‘He opposed maneuvering,’ ‘He did not want to go into Rafah,’ all the lies they repeat in loops. The chief of staff, Gallant, Gantz and I were the biggest advocates of maneuvering. In the end Netanyahu also joined. He also asked me whether my son was maneuvering, to check with me and understand why the obsession with maneuvering."

He asked you whether your son was maneuvering?

"Twice. Then he expressed appreciation, today they invent that Eizenkot opposed maneuvering."

"I despise the criminal"

Eizenkot is currently at the center of the sights of Netanyahu’s spokesmen and campaign machine. One of its central narratives is trying to convince voters that "without Odeh and Tibi, there is no Gadi." Eizenkot responds: "That is how he operates all the time and unfortunately that is also how he won elections. The lie is repeated in loops all the time. He apparently has a guy who specializes in these lies, meaning the prime minister’s spokesman, Yonatan Urich. This is a person who should be kept 1,000 kilometers away from any decision-maker in Israel. A corrupt guy who endangered state security and endangered hostages. Netanyahu is captive to him. Apparently Urich knows something that gives him a special kind of spell over Netanyahu. Such a person should sit in prison for the rest of his life. I know what he did in the Bild leak. He endangered the IDF’s most important source."

On the issue of partnership with Arab parties, he adds: "After all, he chased after Mansour Abbas and promised him everything under the sun. Still, it is a problem when a prime minister speaks against 21% of his citizens and de-legitimizes everyone. But that is Netanyahu. He wants to keep ruling, so they invent lies."

What are your relations with Odeh and Tibi?

"I have no political relations with them. I tend to speak to the substance, not the person. So when I am asked about the Arab parties, I give the same answer as לגבי the ultra-Orthodox parties: I will sit with anyone who accepts three principles, Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, the values of the Declaration of Independence, and the duty of military or national service."

"It is right to talk about what yes, and not what no, because otherwise you end up with some candidates saying, ‘We won’t sit with the Haredim,’ ‘We won’t sit with Arabs,’ ‘We won’t sit with Ben Gvir,’ ‘We won’t sit with Smotrich,’ and ‘We won’t sit with Likud under Netanyahu.’ They probably intend to form a coalition with the Balochis or with the Freemasons. In the end this is Israeli politics. I am trying to persuade non-Zionist, non-state parties to accept the three principles."

Apparently both Smotrich and Ben Gvir accept those principles.

"Ben Gvir certainly does not accept a Jewish democratic and liberal state. The way he speaks, he wants a fascist state. As for Smotrich, he has a very problematic worldview. What he wants to do, and he wrote this in the Decision Plan in 2017, is to control all Palestinians or have them leave."

So Smotrich is not in your line, and Ben Gvir wants a fascist state, the Haredim are not willing to enlist, and the Arabs also have a problem with enlistment. So how does this work out?

"We need to act together to achieve a sharp and clear victory over the coalition. Netanyahu will not be the next prime minister. He will lose. It is completely clear that he will lose. He has failed so badly. I have no doubt that we will beat him."

Who will be the next prime minister?

"I am working so that it will be me."

That does not match what your partners, Bennett and Lapid, are building, he announced that in a month you will hold a joint press conference on a merger.

"I worked to build a super-party with two parties alongside it, Lieberman on one side and Golan on the other. When that did not work, I moved to Plan B, in which four parties will run. As for who leads the bloc, it is highly preferable that the candidate for prime minister receive the broadest possible support. Certainly not someone who heads a party with six or eight seats. In my view that is not democratic. It is neither proper nor desirable. That was an experiment and it is not advisable to repeat it."

Could Bennett again demand the premiership when he is not the largest?

"The Israeli public de-legitimized the previous event, although the Change Government under Bennett was a reasonable, good government. It is preferable that this not happen. Certainly not in light of the reality of recent years. It is preferable that there be one party with a majority and that the coalition be as broad as possible."

Is the fact that a super-party was not formed the result of ego? You could not decide who would come first?

"I do not think this is only about ego. There was a difference in worldview. Bennett and Lapid decided to join forces with each other. I thought that was a mistake. But I accept it and see them as partners. There is no anger in me. I have one goal, to beat the coalition and save the State of Israel."

Do you see more mergers with you, or is that also no longer on the table?

"Mergers are a means. The goal is to win. Small parties must not cause wasted votes, and Likud must not be the largest party."

So you have not taken the merger with Bennett off the table?

"Right now I am busy being the biggest and strongest. I will examine the issue of mergers. We need to be at 61, and one party that is significantly larger than Likud."

Is there a chance you will reserve spots for your former partners Benny Gantz and Chili Tropper?

"That is not on the agenda."

If asked, are you a right-wing, left-wing, or center-left person?

"I am a person of the State of Israel who strongly believes in the idea of statism. I see myself as a security hawk. I suggest that people go back to my farewell as chief of staff, when Netanyahu listed my achievements, ours of course, and praised me for the use of force throughout the Middle East. Today he sends his envoys to slander me over the very things he praised then."

Because he is under pressure because you are gaining strength?

"He is under pressure."

But why you? Why not Bennett?

"Because he understands that I am his main rival. He knows what I represent. Unlike the commentators, he knows me down to the millimeter. He knows how dominant I was as chief of staff and how much he relied on me in all the achievements he claimed as his own. Today I am a political rival, so of course everything is turned upside down."

In recent days they published a video of you in English under the title "Minister of Information," apparently to make fun of you. What did you think of it?

"Look, I despise that criminal, that person who harmed state security, again referring to Urich, whom he believes is behind the video. He should have been buried in some bunker. He is a vile person. In my view, someone like that should not be part of Israeli public life. What does that say about Netanyahu, what does that say about Likud, that such a vile person is the one everyone there fears and who is leading them by the nose?"

"And I ask myself, where was Netanyahu’s superb English on October 7? Did it help us in any way? It did not help at all. Where is his superb English in strengthening Israel-US relations, which this morning are at a low point?"

Is that a racist post?

"It is racist and I despise them."

On one hand, Netanyahu represents the Mizrahi public, development towns, Moroccan immigrants and so on. On the other hand, he may drag you into the issue and color you in the hues of David Levy, apropos English. Are you taking that into account?

"I have never boasted of superb English. But I know how to speak, read and write, and I managed in many meetings. By the way, I was in dozens of meetings in English with Netanyahu. I do not remember him ever correcting me once on my present perfect. As for the substance, this seems to me like the activity of weak people. They are panicking."

"I can see their panic through the channels. On Channel 14 I am covered in every slot except the weather. I assume that will happen in the coming days and I will be blamed for the June-July heat. If they knew me, they would know it makes me more stubborn. It makes me more determined, so they can continue."

You are Moroccan, you grew up in the periphery, and לאורך השנים you avoided dealing with the issue of ethnicity.

"My parents immigrated from Morocco and that is a fact. I was born in Tiberias and grew up in Eilat. It was never an issue at home. I never felt discriminated against. I always believed one should excel and not complain. I accumulated anger toward sectoral parties that arose to restore old glories."

Did the parents never experience discrimination? There was a time in Israel when everyone experienced it.

"In my home it was never, ever an issue. I never heard my parents complaining about discrimination. A media person told me I had to make a video about how my parents met in an immigrant camp and about the difficulties. I told him that is a great story, except my parents lived the first year of their marriage in Kibbutz Ashdot Yaakov. Then he says, ‘No, that is a bad story.’"

They say you lack charisma, something that can decide against Netanyahu and others.

"I do not know what a lack of charisma is. Let us say Netanyahu has charisma. I see where he brought the State of Israel."

The next government will probably have to deal with the hot potato called the enlistment law. Do you know how to do that without declaring a religious war?

"In May 1977, a historic value-based accident occurred in Israeli politics, Likud’s agreement with Agudat Yisrael to allow exemptions for several hundred Torah scholars. Begin did this out of respect for religion and innocence. He never imagined there would be 37,000 deserters and 45,000 draft evaders during a war. It is insane to see people like Aryeh Deri sitting in the cabinet and raising a hand to go to war, and then going out to back draft dodgers.

"On October 7, something happened, and a law must be passed based on four principles: 1. Enlistment for all, Haredim and Arabs, military or national service. 2. The Likud-Agudat Yisrael arrangement is null and void, and in its place returns an administration that defines who receives exemptions. 3. The State of Israel dramatically rewards regular and reserve service members, and punishes and sanctions those who evade service. 4. The State of Israel allows exemptions for 3% of each annual cohort. Ben-Gurion did this during the War of Independence, it can be done now."

The question is whether that will not lead to a street war. The event could get out of control.

"We must not get to a street war."

Trump says that Netanyahu may drop a bomb and step down. Do you factor that into your scenarios?

"It is only logical that he submit a resignation letter, establish a state commission of inquiry and go on his way."

So you are saying give him a convenient deal without moral turpitude and let him go?

"You may be surprised, I have nothing personal against Benjamin Netanyahu. I would not want to see him in prison. At the same time, I would not want to see the Israeli system, the justice system and the law turned into a joke. To receive a pardon, he should do what is required to obtain one. He wants a halt to the trial and for the State of Israel to apologize."